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	<title>Comments for Peter Frase</title>
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	<link>http://www.peterfrase.com</link>
	<description>Sociology, CUNY Graduate Center</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 21:43:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Two Faces of Austerity by Jkudler</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/05/two-faces-of-austerity/comment-page-1/#comment-5654</link>
		<dc:creator>Jkudler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 21:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2131#comment-5654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;Average is over&quot;!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/opinion/friedman-average-is-over.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;By Friedman (in some ways even more of a clown than Brooks), but it really makes the above-mentioned &quot;dissonance&quot; 1000 times more explicit, hilariously.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Average is over&#8221;!
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/opinion/friedman-average-is-over.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/opinion/friedman-average-is-over.html</a></p>

<p>By Friedman (in some ways even more of a clown than Brooks), but it really makes the above-mentioned &#8220;dissonance&#8221; 1000 times more explicit, hilariously.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Faces of Austerity by Sean Andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/05/two-faces-of-austerity/comment-page-1/#comment-5653</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 18:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2131#comment-5653</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That last paragraph is a perfect summation of the problem. Part of me thinks current events in Europe - particularly in the Greek elections, where the extremes are fighting it out - are evidence of a new round of the fascism Polanyi claimed would be the eventual outcome of any society dominated by an unfettered, disembedded market. But maybe that&#039;s too academic of an assessment.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last paragraph is a perfect summation of the problem. Part of me thinks current events in Europe &#8211; particularly in the Greek elections, where the extremes are fighting it out &#8211; are evidence of a new round of the fascism Polanyi claimed would be the eventual outcome of any society dominated by an unfettered, disembedded market. But maybe that&#8217;s too academic of an assessment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Problem With (Sex) Work by Linden</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/03/the-problem-with-sex-work/comment-page-1/#comment-5649</link>
		<dc:creator>Linden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 15:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2069#comment-5649</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Your analysis is incomplete without a discussion of how &quot;sex work&quot; serves to reinforce women&#039;s designation at birth as members of the &quot;sex class,&quot; which is the primary inequality on which all other inequalities are based. Prostitution can never be neutral work similar to other kinds of work because it serves to legitimize women&#039;s oppression.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For example, in high school I worked at McDonald&#039;s, which I imagine is the very sort of work you would consider dehumanizing and without dignity. And it wasn&#039;t great work -- it was work for a paycheck, nothing more. But no one was able to beat me or urinate on me as a condition of my work. No one could withhold my paycheck, or verbally abuse me, or impregnate me, or expose me to a deadly venereal disease. No one could  force me to kneel (or at least purchase the illusion of my being forced to kneel) and revel in their domination over me. No one had to trick me into working at McDonald&#039;s, or traffic me from another country with the false promise of work as a domestic servant. No one could set their price on me based on my youth, status as a virgin, race, or sexual appeal to customers. No one could kill me, and probably not even draw much police scrutiny until several other additional bodies piled up. But, but, but, you might say -- all these problems would go away if prostitution was legal! And I submit to you that they would not, for the simple reason that this is what prostitution is -- men paying women (or sometimes other men, but very rarely women paying men) to be treated like what they are designated -- members of the sex class. These acts are not neutral acts, or the hazards of a job similar to the hazards experienced on other jobs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That women somewhere can be bought for a price means that in their minds, men can rest easy in the assumption that any woman anywhere can be bought for a price -- she&#039;s just setting her price higher. Many a misogynist has soothed his angry soul with the image of a powerful woman with her pretentions to equality quite literally stripped away along with her clothes. And by their position on the lowest rung of society, prostitutes serve as a cautionary example to women everywhere of what is in store for them if they stray outside of society&#039;s strictures, and reinforce women&#039;s mainstream position as the (respectable) suppliers to men of unpaid sexuality, childbearing, and childrearing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Which is not to say that I blame individual women for accommodating themselves to the system -- quite the opposite. Individuals strike the best bargains they can in their lives, given their circumstances. But let&#039;s not pretend that this sort of work is devoid of political or social context, or is the same as other work.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your analysis is incomplete without a discussion of how &#8220;sex work&#8221; serves to reinforce women&#8217;s designation at birth as members of the &#8220;sex class,&#8221; which is the primary inequality on which all other inequalities are based. Prostitution can never be neutral work similar to other kinds of work because it serves to legitimize women&#8217;s oppression.</p>

<p>For example, in high school I worked at McDonald&#8217;s, which I imagine is the very sort of work you would consider dehumanizing and without dignity. And it wasn&#8217;t great work &#8212; it was work for a paycheck, nothing more. But no one was able to beat me or urinate on me as a condition of my work. No one could withhold my paycheck, or verbally abuse me, or impregnate me, or expose me to a deadly venereal disease. No one could  force me to kneel (or at least purchase the illusion of my being forced to kneel) and revel in their domination over me. No one had to trick me into working at McDonald&#8217;s, or traffic me from another country with the false promise of work as a domestic servant. No one could set their price on me based on my youth, status as a virgin, race, or sexual appeal to customers. No one could kill me, and probably not even draw much police scrutiny until several other additional bodies piled up. But, but, but, you might say &#8212; all these problems would go away if prostitution was legal! And I submit to you that they would not, for the simple reason that this is what prostitution is &#8212; men paying women (or sometimes other men, but very rarely women paying men) to be treated like what they are designated &#8212; members of the sex class. These acts are not neutral acts, or the hazards of a job similar to the hazards experienced on other jobs.</p>

<p>That women somewhere can be bought for a price means that in their minds, men can rest easy in the assumption that any woman anywhere can be bought for a price &#8212; she&#8217;s just setting her price higher. Many a misogynist has soothed his angry soul with the image of a powerful woman with her pretentions to equality quite literally stripped away along with her clothes. And by their position on the lowest rung of society, prostitutes serve as a cautionary example to women everywhere of what is in store for them if they stray outside of society&#8217;s strictures, and reinforce women&#8217;s mainstream position as the (respectable) suppliers to men of unpaid sexuality, childbearing, and childrearing.</p>

<p>Which is not to say that I blame individual women for accommodating themselves to the system &#8212; quite the opposite. Individuals strike the best bargains they can in their lives, given their circumstances. But let&#8217;s not pretend that this sort of work is devoid of political or social context, or is the same as other work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Works and Anti-Works by Ralph Haygood</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/05/new-works-and-anti-works/comment-page-1/#comment-5646</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Haygood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 02:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2124#comment-5646</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;[W]hen it comes to perpetuating the work-based society, the ideological power of the work ethic is at least as important as the technical possibilities of production.&quot; Indeed, far more so, I suspect.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;[W]hen it comes to perpetuating the work-based society, the ideological power of the work ethic is at least as important as the technical possibilities of production.&#8221; Indeed, far more so, I suspect.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Works and Anti-Works by Sandwichman</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/05/new-works-and-anti-works/comment-page-1/#comment-5644</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandwichman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 22:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2124#comment-5644</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A variation on the same theme: I was recently in collective bargaining and coincidentally reading David Spencer&#039;s Political Economy of Work in the evenings. David summarizes the contrasting views of work of such writers as Adam Smith, Bentham, Marx, Carlyle, Ruskin, Morris, Veblen, Marshall, the Austrian opportunity cost notion and the current &quot;economics of happiness&quot; crowd (e.g. Richard Layard).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What came through to me in the negotiating sessions is that management very clearly held a neoclassical opportunity cost view of the work. Or perhaps it is the other way around, that the neoclassical view reflects the standard management perspective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Whether work is painful, pleasurable, ennobling or alienating depends very much on whether it is coerced or free, whether it is integrating or isolating, whether it is creative or drudgery. The same distinctions apply to &quot;leisure.&quot; Leisure is not the opposite of work, it is a complement to it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Time for a nap.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A variation on the same theme: I was recently in collective bargaining and coincidentally reading David Spencer&#8217;s Political Economy of Work in the evenings. David summarizes the contrasting views of work of such writers as Adam Smith, Bentham, Marx, Carlyle, Ruskin, Morris, Veblen, Marshall, the Austrian opportunity cost notion and the current &#8220;economics of happiness&#8221; crowd (e.g. Richard Layard).</p>

<p>What came through to me in the negotiating sessions is that management very clearly held a neoclassical opportunity cost view of the work. Or perhaps it is the other way around, that the neoclassical view reflects the standard management perspective.</p>

<p>Whether work is painful, pleasurable, ennobling or alienating depends very much on whether it is coerced or free, whether it is integrating or isolating, whether it is creative or drudgery. The same distinctions apply to &#8220;leisure.&#8221; Leisure is not the opposite of work, it is a complement to it.</p>

<p>Time for a nap.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Works and Anti-Works by Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/05/new-works-and-anti-works/comment-page-1/#comment-5643</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 19:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2124#comment-5643</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think there&#039;s a middle option between option 1 and 2 that comes so close to an ideal of work-discipline that I am wary to propose it until I work out the kinks, but I will anyway so I don&#039;t lose the thought.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Basically, we can go about certain tasks in our domestic realms without finding them either immediately &quot;fulfilling&quot; nor mere drudgery. I am a genderless but male-bodied person who takes care to keep the apartment I share with my partner. Basically, I like to see dishes get done the same day they are made, that the most commonly used spaces aren&#039;t landing pads for stuff that has other places it can &quot;live&quot;, that the toilet isn&#039;t caked with crud, and that the floors aren&#039;t covered with all sorts of loose particles.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My partner is in some ways, compared to me, a slob or slovenly inclined. I usually don&#039;t get a whole lot of immediate enjoyment out of doing the dishes though. Sometimes I do like an artist mindlessly manipulating their medium. It never occurs to me that this is drudgery though, because for me it&#039;s a moment in something bigger that I do consider something I enjoy. It&#039;s not deferred enjoyment, but a more capacious way of enjoying what I&#039;m doing. Against this, in the counter-culture, is posed an image of the upright house-wife whose clean house &quot;is a sign of a wasted life&quot;, which apart from having some misogynistic baggage equivocates what people care about with what &quot;society&quot; cares about.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think of this work in terms of Heideggerrian &quot;care&quot; and world-building though. Of course, the world the work-ethic compels us to build is in many ways a bunch of bullshit, but I&#039;m wary to throw out the baby with the bathwater. David Graeber argues that debt is a perverted promise, and asks somewhat rhetorically what kind of promises people will make to one another in a postdebt society. Similarly, I wonder is how we understand our continuing care for the world (our ethical commitment to it) in a postwork society.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a middle option between option 1 and 2 that comes so close to an ideal of work-discipline that I am wary to propose it until I work out the kinks, but I will anyway so I don&#8217;t lose the thought.</p>

<p>Basically, we can go about certain tasks in our domestic realms without finding them either immediately &#8220;fulfilling&#8221; nor mere drudgery. I am a genderless but male-bodied person who takes care to keep the apartment I share with my partner. Basically, I like to see dishes get done the same day they are made, that the most commonly used spaces aren&#8217;t landing pads for stuff that has other places it can &#8220;live&#8221;, that the toilet isn&#8217;t caked with crud, and that the floors aren&#8217;t covered with all sorts of loose particles.</p>

<p>My partner is in some ways, compared to me, a slob or slovenly inclined. I usually don&#8217;t get a whole lot of immediate enjoyment out of doing the dishes though. Sometimes I do like an artist mindlessly manipulating their medium. It never occurs to me that this is drudgery though, because for me it&#8217;s a moment in something bigger that I do consider something I enjoy. It&#8217;s not deferred enjoyment, but a more capacious way of enjoying what I&#8217;m doing. Against this, in the counter-culture, is posed an image of the upright house-wife whose clean house &#8220;is a sign of a wasted life&#8221;, which apart from having some misogynistic baggage equivocates what people care about with what &#8220;society&#8221; cares about.</p>

<p>I think of this work in terms of Heideggerrian &#8220;care&#8221; and world-building though. Of course, the world the work-ethic compels us to build is in many ways a bunch of bullshit, but I&#8217;m wary to throw out the baby with the bathwater. David Graeber argues that debt is a perverted promise, and asks somewhat rhetorically what kind of promises people will make to one another in a postdebt society. Similarly, I wonder is how we understand our continuing care for the world (our ethical commitment to it) in a postwork society.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Anti-Star Trek: A Theory of Posterity by Owledge</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2010/12/anti-star-trek-a-theory-of-posterity/comment-page-1/#comment-5642</link>
		<dc:creator>Owledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 21:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=725#comment-5642</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To me, the essay reads a lot like our world today. There is a basic misconception in it: that scarcity or abundance is decided by technology. But that is only a minor factor. Power structures in society are to a great degree designed to artifically create scarcity. The example of the replicator is - if at all - merely in detail a somewhat easier technological means for creating oaowlbundance than in our current world. Our current power structures are in fact so successful at maintaining scarcity that most people don&#039;t even know that there are already technologies in use (on small, private scale) that can generate virtually unlimited amounts of electricity without a limited input required. And there is the more widely known fact that we produce more than enough food in the world, but that unequal distribution is the problem.
To solve the so-called &#039;problems of the world&#039; (more accurately: problems of society), we don&#039;t need to look at technologies or systems, but people have to mature emotionally: to overcome the fears that dominate their actions. And that can only be facilitated by people not attempting to create change through behavior that is based on their own fears and misconceptions. Any approach that is rotten at the core will eventually create more of that.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the essay reads a lot like our world today. There is a basic misconception in it: that scarcity or abundance is decided by technology. But that is only a minor factor. Power structures in society are to a great degree designed to artifically create scarcity. The example of the replicator is &#8211; if at all &#8211; merely in detail a somewhat easier technological means for creating oaowlbundance than in our current world. Our current power structures are in fact so successful at maintaining scarcity that most people don&#8217;t even know that there are already technologies in use (on small, private scale) that can generate virtually unlimited amounts of electricity without a limited input required. And there is the more widely known fact that we produce more than enough food in the world, but that unequal distribution is the problem.
To solve the so-called &#8216;problems of the world&#8217; (more accurately: problems of society), we don&#8217;t need to look at technologies or systems, but people have to mature emotionally: to overcome the fears that dominate their actions. And that can only be facilitated by people not attempting to create change through behavior that is based on their own fears and misconceptions. Any approach that is rotten at the core will eventually create more of that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Capitalism Against Capitalists by samhammer</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/04/capitalism-against-capitalists/comment-page-1/#comment-5641</link>
		<dc:creator>samhammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2092#comment-5641</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll have to read Graeber&#039;s essay. I really like most of his stuff, but from the excerpts here it seems way off base. No recent technological innovation? You&#039;re reading a web page, for Christ&#039;s sake. I can buy an issue of the Baffler for my Nook or Kindle.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The innovation by startups (and even, say, Apple) is amazing. I think the capitalists are in general doing fine at increasingly rapidly revolutionizing the whole relations of society.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even if not, why TF would we want to help capitalism again? Maybe to save it from rentism (abolish software patents, etc. regulate Apple and other gatekeepers) but when do we know we&#039;re done? At what point then do we stop running capitalism for the capitalists and start building something else? Why not build that something else right now?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to read Graeber&#8217;s essay. I really like most of his stuff, but from the excerpts here it seems way off base. No recent technological innovation? You&#8217;re reading a web page, for Christ&#8217;s sake. I can buy an issue of the Baffler for my Nook or Kindle.</p>

<p>The innovation by startups (and even, say, Apple) is amazing. I think the capitalists are in general doing fine at increasingly rapidly revolutionizing the whole relations of society.</p>

<p>Even if not, why TF would we want to help capitalism again? Maybe to save it from rentism (abolish software patents, etc. regulate Apple and other gatekeepers) but when do we know we&#8217;re done? At what point then do we stop running capitalism for the capitalists and start building something else? Why not build that something else right now?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Manufacturing Stupidity by Harry Lieber</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/04/manufacturing-stupidity/comment-page-1/#comment-5639</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Lieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2107#comment-5639</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I suspect the responses to questions 1, 2, and 3 pertain to subjective perception, not to scientifically verifiable truths. One can measure hardness of a substance, but I am sceptical about the measurement of softness in the sense cited in Q.1. State standards are not necessarily based on scientific observation. Most likely the softness rating is based on what flower growers and distributors think. Frese&#039;s assertion that Florida&#039;s rating system is scientific is a misreading of how these rating systems work. A group of raters gets together, and the assessments of the majority or plurality become the standards by means of which softness is rated. These ratings are not derived from scientific laboratories.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Q. 2 is a no brainer, so we will leave it alone.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Q. 4. Frase says a decent chemist could solve the problem. Well, you tell him that, other than identical twins, no two people perceive smell or taste the same way. Because of my sinuses, I have had my olfactory tested senses tested several times, and I can ASSURE you, there ain&#039;t anything scientific about it. The test is very subjective, and I never was sure whether my assessments were consistent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What Frase confuses the ability of chemists to ANALYZE the chemical composition of volatile substances, not what people smell. So he is making a fundamental error.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the responses to questions 1, 2, and 3 pertain to subjective perception, not to scientifically verifiable truths. One can measure hardness of a substance, but I am sceptical about the measurement of softness in the sense cited in Q.1. State standards are not necessarily based on scientific observation. Most likely the softness rating is based on what flower growers and distributors think. Frese&#8217;s assertion that Florida&#8217;s rating system is scientific is a misreading of how these rating systems work. A group of raters gets together, and the assessments of the majority or plurality become the standards by means of which softness is rated. These ratings are not derived from scientific laboratories.</p>

<p>Q. 2 is a no brainer, so we will leave it alone.</p>

<p>Q. 4. Frase says a decent chemist could solve the problem. Well, you tell him that, other than identical twins, no two people perceive smell or taste the same way. Because of my sinuses, I have had my olfactory tested senses tested several times, and I can ASSURE you, there ain&#8217;t anything scientific about it. The test is very subjective, and I never was sure whether my assessments were consistent.</p>

<p>What Frase confuses the ability of chemists to ANALYZE the chemical composition of volatile substances, not what people smell. So he is making a fundamental error.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Manufacturing Stupidity by Inverness</title>
		<link>http://www.peterfrase.com/2012/04/manufacturing-stupidity/comment-page-1/#comment-5637</link>
		<dc:creator>Inverness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterfrase.com/?p=2107#comment-5637</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a teacher, and I find this to be quite astute. Multiple choice questions are the norm in Humanities instruction, which essentially trivializes complex subjects, which seems to be the goal. Suddenly, the American economy is a. Free-market b. Command or c. Traditional. There are many problems with this kind of question -- our economy clearly shows a mixture of command and free-market tendencies. But, if I want my students to perform well on tests (and therefore secure my job), I must drill in their heads that we have capitalism, government intervention on behalf of General Motors and Bank of America be damned.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a teacher, and I find this to be quite astute. Multiple choice questions are the norm in Humanities instruction, which essentially trivializes complex subjects, which seems to be the goal. Suddenly, the American economy is a. Free-market b. Command or c. Traditional. There are many problems with this kind of question &#8212; our economy clearly shows a mixture of command and free-market tendencies. But, if I want my students to perform well on tests (and therefore secure my job), I must drill in their heads that we have capitalism, government intervention on behalf of General Motors and Bank of America be damned.</p>
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